Professional Dog Trainer, Valerie Barry, from In Partnership With Dogs, has been training dogs for over 10 years. As a full member of the APDT (Association of Professional Dog Trainers), she formulated her business philosophy with the idea that respect and cooperation are the cornerstones for a healthy relationship—or partnership—with your dog. In an interview with Your Holistic Dog, Valerie explains this philosophy and dispels pervasive misconceptions about dog behaviour.
Your Holistic Dog: I find the name of your company intriguing…In Partnership With Dogs. How does this express your training philosophy?
Valerie Barry: Interesting that no one has ever asked me that before! I spent a long time trying to come up with a name that truly reflected my philosophy and the message that I am trying to get across to dog owners. A lot of company names out there reflect common myths about dogs and about traditional training methods–”alpha”, “leader of the pack”, “master”, etc. I wanted to get as far away from that whole mindset as possible.
I am hoping to encourage dog owners to change the way they view their dogs and to focus on learning to understand them, learning to enjoy working with them and learning to appreciate their personalities, sense of humor and individuality. Our domestic dogs are captive in our homes. We have a responsibility to ensure that they have a full and enriching life and are properly equipped with all the necessary skills that they need to live with us–just like our children.
In proper positive reinforcement training, you are building a relationship with your dog. You create that relationship by finding a way of communicating understood by both parties. That communication needs to go two ways–dogs should be able to be heard when they say “I don’t think I can”, or “I need to stop now”, or “I don’t feel safe” and we need the skill to understand them when they say this to us.
With time and consistent effort, dog and guardian can develop a relationship where there exists a true partnership–each understanding the other’s intentions and expectations so that they appear to almost know what the other is thinking. It’s wonderful to see and wonderful to have that kind of connection with another being, and the process of getting there can be fun and rewarding too. Obviously, we are the human and we live in a human world, so the human gets to make the big decisions and create the rules and boundaries that are appropriate for a dog living in our world. And it is the human’s responsibility to ensure that the rules are fair and clearly understood by our dogs and that we take the time and effort to help them learn behaviours to make them successful participants of our world. This process should be fun and rewarding for both parties–it should not be physically or mentally painful for our dogs, it should not be non-stop onerous work and it should not squash their personalities in the process–creating merely the appearance of obedience.
YHD: There are many misconceptions out there regarding the terms “dominance” and “alpha” when referring to domestic dogs and their wolf ancestors. Can you elaborate on this?
VB: There is a traditional belief that our domestic dogs descended directly from wolves. There is also a traditional belief that wolves have a pack structure that relies on dominance and violence to keep all members in line. This really has attained mythical status. The myth states that the top wolf must be the strongest, fastest, smartest and capable of being more violent than the other pack members or those below it will take the leader down. Traditionally, we have extrapolated this information and placed these same mythical beliefs on our own dogs simply because they are ancestors of wolves and therefore must be the same. In other words, we must be more dominant than our dogs and be prepared to deal with any challenge to our status and be as forceful as is needed to keep our leadership intact. It is widely believed that this myth started as a result of a publication put forward several decades ago by behaviourist Rudolph Schenkel who recorded his observations of a wolf pack that had been created by assembling different wolves from various zoos into a captive colony.
A great deal of research and decades of observation of wolf packs in the wild has been done since. It is now understood that these early, misleading observations do not resemble the structure of a true wolf pack in the wild. (See publication by renowned wolf researcher, David Mech, Winter 2008, entitled “Whatever Happened to the Term Alpha Wolf?“)
For more articles on the myth of “dominance” and “alpha” in our relationship with our dogs:
1. “Forget About Being Alpha in Your Pack”, published in 2008, by Kathy Sdao, Certified Animal Behaviourist
2. “Beyond the Dominance Paradigm”, 2006, Patricia B. McConnell, PhD
3. “Dog Training and the Myth of Alpha-Male Dominance“, published in July 2010, by Jeninne Lee-St. John
4. “Using Dominance to Explain Dog Behaviour is Old Hat”, Science Daily, 2009
Dogs, as their own distinct group, have really only been studied in the past few decades, and much information is now available about their habits, behaviour and evolution which clearly exposes much of traditional thinking as the urban myth that it is. Sadly, many dog owners continue to believe the “sticky” story (as described by Kathy Sdao in her article noted above) as it continues to be heavily supported by dog professionals–particularly those on TV and in print media. Dogs are being terribly hurt by these ideas as it directly effects the training methods that are used on them.
Any training method that supports the idea that one must be the “alpha” in their household can only be punitive by it’s very nature. While certain “punishment” can seem very benign and not physically violent, it still creates a very different relationship than one based on proper positive reinforcement. One very important thing to remember is that you cannot ever know how something you do effects or feels to another being – particularly when they do not have a common language to express themselves to you. One quote I particularly like to relate to the popular use of punitive training methods is: “Where knowledge ends, violence begins.” (author unknown). Unfortunately, the human species has a love of hierarchies and certainly has a long history of violence against those who appear to refuse to be intimidated by them. Despite all current evidence to the contrary, punitive training methods continue to persist and be popular.
The problem with aversive training methods is that they do not instill in the recipient a desire to comply and to work together. The other issue is that they offer the illusion that you can have “control” over your dog. In reality, the only being that you can truly control is yourself.
For further information on modern dog behaviour, check out an extremely enlightening book written by biologist Dr. Raymond Coppinger and Lorna Coppinger detailing their research into the evolution of dogs: Dogs – A New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behaviour and Evolution. In his book, Dr. Coppinger shows us through his research that although dogs are, indeed, ancestors of the wolf, they are actually direct descendants of the Village Dog or the Pariah Dog. The Pariah Dogs are those dogs you see when you travel to places like The Cook Islands, Africa, Mexico, etc. He discovered from extensive observations of these dogs, that they live largely solitary lives with no pack structure whatsoever and certainly no violent dominant behaviour between neighbouring dogs. The key piece of information he discusses is that our domestic dogs evolved from wolves. Evolution means that a species changes and adapts to thrive in its new environment.
YHD: There are training ideas advocated by TV personalities (and adopted by dog guardians) that have been detrimental to the well-being of some dogs. Coming from a television background, I know how events can be edited for time and, in shows like these, this can easily misrepresent “results.” What has been your observation of dogs who have experienced these training philosophies?
VB: I would have to say that the methods used by our most popular TV dog trainers (that is to say the methods of Positive Punishment and Flooding), are detrimental to the well-being of all of our dogs and are, in fact, killing many of them–directly or indirectly. I would consider it an epidemic of disastrous proportions. That may sound overly melodramatic but I truly believe the problem is that serious. There is only a comparatively small group of individuals working within the bounds of accurate science and behavoural knowledge of our domestic dogs. This group cannot easily overcome the misinformation out there, particularly if it continues to be supported by TV and print medias–that’s a huge structure to compete with for the influence of the general public. The public likes TV that is exciting and full of violence or the potential for violence where the “aggressor” is “dominated.” Is reality TV really “reality?”
The fact is that a good dog training program of correctly used Positive Reinforcement methods is pretty uneventful and not terribly exciting to watch – unless you’re looking to find joy in uncovering your dog’s personality, sense of humor and finding a partnership with your best friend. You should not have to be a physically strong and fit adult to train a dog–you shouldn’t even have to touch a dog to teach him anything. There’s a well-known positive dog trainer by the name of Suzanne Clothier who I once heard at a conference say: “You shouldn’t have to know how much your dog weighs to train him!”–in other words, “I have an 80-pound Rottweiler…” isn’t the most important piece of information.
In my experience, the dogs that are subjected to these methods of training roughly fall into two groups: the “I don’t think so” group and the “I’ve gone to live in my happy place” group.
The “I don’t think so” dogs tend to have strong personalities, a good level of confidence and are often pretty intelligent–they will strongly object to a punitive training method right from the start. I’ve had many calls from clients who have tried “just one thing” from a suggestion on TV or an aversive trainer and then quickly created a dog who will growl and bite rather than interact and comply.
The “I’ve gone to live in my happy place” dogs are ones that I generally see only if someone else has rescued them and recognizes that the “special spark” is missing–it’s been “trained” out of them in some punitive manner. These dogs often appear obedient as they are literally afraid to do the wrong thing and are not willing to offer any behaviour outside of what they have been taught are safe choices. They are easy dogs to intimidate into doing what you want. There are, of course, many dogs who are not directly in just one group but rather fall somewhere in between–but this is a general explanation of my experience and observations.
The “I don’t think so!” Dogs:
I have met and worked with many dogs who have received just one, inappropriate “correction” from their guardians and have then turned around and said, “I don’t think so” in various different ways usually involving their mouths. With this kind of dog, if you continue down the traditional path, you have no choice but to get bigger, stronger and more violent and just hope that you come out on top and eventually succeed in suppressing the more alarming behaviours. I think these dogs truly believe they are in a struggle for survival against their owners.
Some of these types of dogs begin by putting up with things for awhile but begin making clear comments on the inappropriate techniques. Their only choice is to become louder and louder as the training methods become more harsh and more violent until things spiral way out of control. These dogs are more difficult to bring back as their experience wasn’t just a one-time correction and you need to work very hard to let them know things have changed and they can trust your intent.
Often, the “I don’t think so” dogs simply do not survive and are killed for their “aggressive” behaviours. This is truly tragic as the “aggression” may have begun as overly exuberant and joyful or very smart and persistent personalities – misunderstood and mistreated.
Perhaps even more tragic is when the “aggression” is simply a reflection of the fear and insecurity felt by the dog–often very sensitive dogs, not recognized by the human and once again mistreated. You cannot “punish” fear–it’s simply criminal to do so in my opinion. When you punish, all you do is suppress the behaviour but leave the fearful emotion intact and give the dog even more to be afraid of–the punisher, the method and anything or anyone associated with it in addition to the original fear–so sad.
The “I’ve gone to live in my happy place” Dogs:
These dogs are terribly sad. They are truly just a shell of their original selves and have been squashed of any and all personality and individuality. They don’t have the same confidence to “fight back” as the other group, and have the appearance of obedience and successful training. However, if you look deep into their eyes you cannot truly see them– they have gone to their happy place and I hope that there is some happiness there for them before they leave this earth.
They are difficult dogs to work with because they are so unwilling to offer any behaviours and become very stressed when they are not instructed and micro-managed. They are perhaps sadder than the other group simply as their lives are destined to be longer because they are more manageable. To bring some of these dogs back, you literally have to work with and reinforce miniscule behaviours like breathing, blinking, yawning, and small ear movements in order to begin teaching them to trust again and to give them the courage to offer something on their own for instructive feedback and encouragement.
Articles of Interest:
1. Before the “Dog Whisperer” ever aired, it was reviewed by Andrew Luescher DVM PhD DACVB, Director, Animal Behavior Clinic, School of Veterinary Medicine, Purdue University and here is what he recommended to the National Geographic at their request.
2. “Pack of Lies”, published in the New York Times, August 2006, by Mark Derr
YHD: Many guardians are searching for solutions for their reactive dogs. It’s a difficult and complicated issue. What are some key pointers you can give on this subject?
VB: You must use Positive Reinforcement training if you have a reactive dog–simple as that. This is hard for people because it seems counterintuitive to them. People feel that you must exert more force to gain more control for out-of-control behaviours. It’s especially hard to convince people when they have very large dogs or very aggressive-sounding/looking displays of behaviour.
It is very clear from research into dog behaviour that almost all behaviours that appear “aggressive” have their basis in fear and insecurity. It’s a well-known fact that you cannot punish fear. When you use methods involving Punishment (simplification of the term Positive Punishment in Learning Theory) you are not only suppressing the behaviour but your are leaving the emotion intact and more often than not creating bigger fear of more things. One big problem with punishment-based training is than when you suppress behaviour, the fallout is unpredictable and there is always fallout. That behaviour you were trying to extinguish is going to come out in some other, unpredictable way and that’s a scary thought. In order to properly and permanently change behaviour, you must change the emotion behind it.
In addition to working with the emotion behind the fear with reactive dogs, you also need to provide them with enough rules and guidelines to make them feel comfortable and more secure. Many people make the mistake of giving their dogs too much freedom and not enough appropriate structure–for a fearful dog, this is disastrous. They need to know what is expected of them, what the right answers are and that there is someone looking out for their needs. Too much freedom means that they are often put in positions to have to make decisions when they don’t have enough knowledge or have not been taught the proper skills to know the correct answers. When a dog makes a mistake in this situation, the dog pays the price.
If you have a reactive dog, you need to understand that time, effort and commitment is required to help your dog and you need skilled help to give you the best and most effective direction. Experience is needed to help you. Your best choice is to find a professional trainer to help you who is skilled and current in their knowledge of Positive Reinforcement training. If you have a big problem with serious aggression (inflicting injuries to dogs or people), then you must also find a positive trainer who has experience with those types of behaviours. One group striving to make changes in the current understanding and education of dog trainers is the Association of Pet Dog Trainers (www.apdt.com) and they maintain a list of trainers, worldwide, who subscribe to their positive philosophies. Word of mouth is also a great way to find a talented dog trainer – ask your friends, ask your vet and ask at your favorite pet store.
YHD: What should a person look for when deciding on a dog trainer?
VB:
1. A good trainer should be happy to have you drop in on some classes to see how they are run, how she/he teaches, how happy the dogs seem to be in class and be pleased to answer any questions you may have. Are you comfortable with how the trainer is treating the dogs and people in his/her class? Would you be perfectly happy having this trainer handle your dog?
2. No additional equipment for your dog other than a flat bucker collar, a body harness and regular leash should be needed for a manners or obedience class. You shouldn’t be required to use any special collars or equipment.
3. A good training class should be fairly small unless there is more than one trainer or a trainer and assistant.
4. A good trainer should make you feel comfortable and be very knowledgeable about dog behaviour. Do they regularly update their education by attending conferences and seminars and, if so, what conferences and seminars by what trainers? Is that trainer a member of either (or both) the APDT or the CAPDT (Canadian Association of Professional Dog Trainers)?
5. A good trainer shouldn’t have to handle your dog – they should be capable of explaining things clearly enough to you so that you can do any of the exercises with your dog, yourself. Occasionally, it’s helpful for a trainer to demonstrate an exercise with a dog but it should be your choice if you wish to hand over your dog or not and you have every right to stop the exercise if something makes you uncomfortable.
6. A good trainer should be well-versed in dog training methods other than just their own and should be able to knowledgeably discuss the pros and cons of each.
7. A good trainer should have a recommended reading list / DVD list of current publications that they have read or reviewed.
A very important thing for the general public to know is that the dog training industry is completely unregulated at the present time. Anyone can claim to be a dog trainer, master dog trainer, certified dog trainer, behaviourist, open a dog training school or say pretty much anything about their credentials and skills as it relates to dog training. There are a lot of dog training schools and programs out there and many graduates, but none of them are regulated by anyone in any position of authority.
The Association of Professional Dog Trainers (APDT) is widely recognized as the largest gathering place and educational forum of current, positive dog trainers and dog training methods. They may well become the regulatory body for the dog training profession. At present, the APDT formally recognizes certification from only five organizations: Certification Council for Professional Dog Trainers; Animal Behaviour Society; International Association of Animal Behaviour Consultants; International Association for the Study of Animal Behaviour; and the American College of Veterinary Behaviourists. (As the APDT is an American organization, all their recommendations are American at the present time.)
(Photo Credits: 1.Valerie with dogs, Lisa Kerley; 2. Wolf, Radovan Smokon)
For more information, visit In Partnership With Dogs. You can reach Valerie Barry at valeriebarry(at)me.com.








{ 2 comments… read them below or add one }
Thanks for the great interview….and the intro to one of the ‘good ones’ for training your pet.
Thanks Dakota. And Valerie feeds her dogs a raw diet! It’s all good.